Legislature(1999 - 2000)

03/31/1999 03:12 PM Senate RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
              SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE                                                                                        
                    March 31, 1999                                                                                              
                      3:12 P.M.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Rick Halford, Chairman                                                                                                  
Senator Pete Kelly                                                                                                              
Senator Lyda Green                                                                                                              
Senator Sean Parnell                                                                                                            
Senator Georgianna Lincoln                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Robin Taylor, Vice Chairman                                                                                             
Senator Jerry Mackie                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 7                                                                                              
Supporting the responsible development of the Tulsequah Chief Mine                                                              
through the cooperative effort of Alaska and British Columbia and                                                               
urging Governor Knowles to withdraw his request for a referral of                                                               
the Tulsequah Chief Mine to the International Joint Commission                                                                  
under the Boundary Waters Treaty.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     -MOVED CSSCR 7(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 13(FIN)                                                                                       
Relating to using oil spill settlement funds to create a long-term                                                              
research and monitoring endowment.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     -MOVED CSHJR 13(FIN)OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 11(O&G)                                                                                       
Urging the United States Congress to pass legislation to open the                                                               
coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, Alaska, to                                                                
oil and gas exploration, development, and production.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
          -MOVED SCSHJR 11(RES)OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SCR 7 - See Resources Committee minutes dated 3/26/99.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
HJR 11- No previous Senate action.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HJR 13 - No previous Senate action.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Williams                                                                                                                    
Atlin, British Columbia                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SCR 7.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bob Marmichael                                                                                                              
Atlin, British Columbia                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SCR 7.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Drue Pearce                                                                                                             
State Capitol Bldg.                                                                                                             
Juneau, AK 99811-1182                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SCR 7.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Mike Conway, Director                                                                                                       
Division of Air and Water Quality                                                                                               
Department of Environmental Conservation                                                                                        
410 Willoughby Ave., Ste 105                                                                                                    
Juneau, AK 99801-1795                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SCR 7.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ken Taylor, Director                                                                                                        
Division of Habitat                                                                                                             
P.O. Box 25526                                                                                                                  
Juneau, AK 99802-5526                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SCR 7.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilda Rodman, Staff                                                                                                         
Representative Therriault                                                                                                       
State Capitol Bldg.                                                                                                             
Juneau, AK 99811-1182                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HJR 13 for Representative                                                                      
Therriault.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Molly McCammon                                                                                                              
Exxon Valdez Trust Council                                                                                                      
645 G Street, Ste. 401                                                                                                          
Anchorage, AK 99501                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HJR 13.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wendy Redman                                                                                                                
University of Alaska                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HJR 13.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Judy Jordan, Aide                                                                                                           
Senator Gail Phillips                                                                                                           
State Capitol Bldg.                                                                                                             
Juneau, AK 99811-1182                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HJR 11.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gail Phillips                                                                                                    
State Capitol Bldg.                                                                                                             
Juneau, AK 99811-1182                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HJR 11 for Representative                                                                      
Phillips.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Julie Raymond Yakoubian                                                                                                     
P.O. Box 84666                                                                                                                  
Fairbanks, AK 99708                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HJR 11.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Brenden Raymond Yakoubian                                                                                                   
P.O. Box 84666                                                                                                                  
Fairbanks, AK 99708                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HJR 11.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Willy Dunne                                                                                                                 
P.O. Box 15043                                                                                                                  
Fritz Creek, AK 99603                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HJR 11.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-20, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to                                                               
order at 3:12 p.m.  Present were Senators Green, Pete Kelly,                                                                    
Parnell, and Halford, Chair.  Senator Pearce, sponsor of SCR 7, was                                                             
also present.  CHAIRMAN HALFORD announced several people would be                                                               
participating via teleconference from Atlin, British Columbia.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                  SCR  7-TULSEQUAH CHIEF MINE                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS, testifying from Atlin, stated he believes the                                                                     
Tulsequah Chief Mine project will benefit the communities from                                                                  
Whitehorse to Skagway.  He stated he represents about 40 people who                                                             
support the project.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD noted the committee received a petition signed by                                                              
a number of people who support the project, and the petition has                                                                
been entered into the record.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOB CARMICHAEL, a local contractor and former road                                                                          
superintendent, testified from Atlin in support of the Tulsequah                                                                
Chief Mine project as it will provide year-round employment for                                                                 
local people and allow them to stay in the community.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE informed committee members she sent a memo to both                                                               
Commissioners Rue and Brown asking them to describe their                                                                       
continuing concerns about the project related to the response                                                                   
received from the British Columbia Ministry of Environment, Lands                                                               
and Parks(BCMELP) in November about the Alaska Department of                                                                    
Environmental Conservation's (ADEC) and the Alaska Department of                                                                
Fish and Game's (ADFG) environmental concerns.  She noted neither                                                               
department responded to the BCMELP response.  She asked both                                                                    
Commissioners to bring the concerns that they do not believe can be                                                             
resolved directly with the BCMELP to the Alaska Legislature.  She                                                               
explained her ongoing concern is that Alaska should not try to                                                                  
impose its permitting process on to another government and she                                                                  
believes the Administration has taken a position that will                                                                      
ultimately disable the project from moving forward.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. MICHAEL CONWAY, Director of Statewide Public Service Division                                                               
of DEC, stated he is involved in the coordination of permitting and                                                             
overview of the Tulsequah Chief Mine.  He stated one outcome of the                                                             
government to government interaction that has benefitted both sides                                                             
has been the ability to continue a dialog about the standards.  The                                                             
Canadians have reviewed Alaska's water quality standards and find                                                               
their own to be comparable.  ADEC and ADFG have told the BCMELP                                                                 
they are not interested in permitting the project but they want                                                                 
assurances that the resources at risk are protected. BCMELP has                                                                 
worked directly with Alaska permitting staff to exchange                                                                        
information.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE asked Mr. Conway to address ADEC's concerns in the                                                               
order contained in the response from BCMELP.  She pointed out it is                                                             
her understanding that the response from BCMELP addressed each                                                                  
concern raised by the federal government and ADEC and ADFG.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. CONWAY said ADEC and ADFG are in agreement with the points made                                                             
in that response.  He discussed the Summary of Technical Responses                                                              
on page 3 as follows.  The first issue is about the tailings                                                                    
impoundment.  The USEPA is handling the tailings impoundment issue                                                              
and continuing government to government negotiations between the                                                                
Canadian government and Region X of EPA are ongoing.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if EPA Region X requested mediation.  MR.                                                                
CONWAY replied that he believes the request made was a consolidated                                                             
effort by state and federal agencies.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR 236                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE stated her concern is that it is unnecessary to use                                                              
channels in Washington, D.C., and that Alaska officials can pick up                                                             
the phone and call the Canadian officials.  She asked Mr. Conway                                                                
why the Administration is pushing state department intervention                                                                 
when he just said ADEC does not have any specific disagreements                                                                 
with the Canadian government's response.  She emphasized there is                                                               
no point in escalating problems with British Columbia                                                                           
unnecessarily, and that anytime the U.S. government and Ottawa get                                                              
involved the issue gets more confusing and less is accomplished.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. CONWAY replied ADEC is speaking directly with BC government                                                                 
officials so a direct process is ongoing.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked Mr. Conway to continue discussing ADEC's                                                                 
specific concerns.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. CONWAY stated monitoring long term enforcement has not been an                                                              
issue with ADEC and the Migratory Bird Act issue is either an ADFG                                                              
or US Fish and Wildlife concern, not ADEC's.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. CONWAY referred to page 8 of the BC government's response to                                                                
the development of design specifications covering mixing zones.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     BCMELP has reviewed the Alaska mixing zone regulation and                                                                  
     agrees with the proposed remedy as it relates to the                                                                       
     decision on the waste management act permit.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD affirmed ADEC and the BC government are in                                                                     
agreement on that issue.  MR. CONWAY said that is correct.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. CONWAY stated ADEC and the BC government also agree on number                                                               
2(b) of the response, entitled "Chronic Mine Effluent Toxicity,"                                                                
which reads:                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Canada and BC agree with the three items identified in                                                                     
     the remedy as it relates to the issuance of the waste                                                                      
     management act permit and the approach to be undertaken                                                                    
     is summarized below.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. CONWAY referred to 2(c) on page 9, entitled, "Turbidity and                                                                 
Sedimentation," and read the following:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     BCMELP agrees with the two items identified in the remedy                                                                  
     and the approach to the undertaking as summarized below.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He said there is no disagreement here, nor with 2(d).                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. CONWAY summarized that, in essence, the Canadians have agreed                                                               
to work with us to get information.  The remaining issues we have                                                               
pertain to getting the opportunity to review the actual                                                                         
information.  They have agreed on the approach by working with us                                                               
several times a week on exchanging information.  There are about a                                                              
dozen items the Division still needs to get information on even                                                                 
though DEC is busy permitting Alaska projects.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if DEC felt the IJC was necessary.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. CONWAY answered that he didn't know since good progress is                                                                  
being made.  But prior to the Governor requesting the referral, we                                                              
were being left out of the discussion.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
He noted that the way Canada permits their projects, they do a                                                                  
different level of prepermitting and getting the permit out.  Once                                                              
the project starts, they go back and make changes and redesign the                                                              
project.  They have a lot of monitoring and oversight enforcement.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 342                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE said she thought they used the same process to                                                                   
develop other mines in our joint watersheds in Southeast.  She                                                                  
asked Mr. Conway if there was anything he had asked for that they                                                               
had flat out said "No" to.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. CONWAY answered no.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if there are major concerns on his list that                                                              
feels won't be addressed.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. CONWAY explained that most of the tasks on his list will take                                                               
months to accumulate the information.  Some of them require three                                                               
or four months like the risk assessment which requires looking at                                                               
the representative samples of the effluent.  We also need mixing                                                                
zone calculations which they call dilution.  We haven't asked them                                                              
to adopt Alaska's water quality standards, but have asked for                                                                   
something comparable.  They are responding with what they say is an                                                             
equivalent.  Base line data is needed and spring is the best time                                                               
to do that.  Toxicity testing needs to be done for both acute and                                                               
chronic toxicity.  We haven't seen the data Mr. Ringstad referred                                                               
to showing that the trout all survived after 36 hours (LC50 test).                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if there was anything to keep the Canadian                                                                
group from continuing their project and are we slowing it up with                                                               
our list.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. CONWAY said he didn't believe we were slowing them up.  This                                                                
project requires follow-through as with any U.S. mine.  After four                                                              
years of work, a U.S. mine is about ready to go; whereas the                                                                    
Canadian project is behind because their process is a bit                                                                       
different.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE clarified that no one alleged that the permitting                                                                
process was stopping the project, but that going to the IJC would                                                               
likely take two years which would slow down the mine.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN wanted to make sure that the things they are                                                                    
requesting do not hold up the project.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 420                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEN TAYLOR, Director, Division of Habitat, said his concerns                                                                
are primarily related to salmon and salmon habitat.  The Taku is a                                                              
producer of all five species of salmon in the Pacific and is the                                                                
largest producer in Southeast, producing as much as 2 million                                                                   
salmon annually.  About 400,000 are cohos, 300,000 are sockeyes,                                                                
100,000 king salmon, 1 million pinks, and about 50,000 chums.  This                                                             
river's production compares very evenly with the Copper River, the                                                              
Susitna, and the Yukon Rivers.  They would be asking the same                                                                   
questions and seeking the same assurances if a project were                                                                     
proposed in any of the other large rivers.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
The economic value of the Taku salmon resource is really large.                                                                 
The commercial gillnet fishery is worth about $2.8 million to about                                                             
100 permit holders and the commercial troll harvest of coho for 460                                                             
permit holders is worth about $1 million with an average catch of                                                               
about 58,000 cohos.  These don't include the value of the salmon to                                                             
the seafood processors in local communities.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Sport angling on the Taku is also extremely important, contributing                                                             
about $6.4 million in direct spending to the Juneau economy.  In                                                                
high years, as many as 10,000 kings are taken - about 40 percent of                                                             
which are from the Taku; about 50,000 cohos - about 40 percent from                                                             
Taku; and about 32,000 anglers receive benefits from this system.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
In the US/Canada Salmon Treaty process, both countries have                                                                     
committed to special enhancement and conservation measures for                                                                  
trans boundary stocks that include the Taku River sockeyes.  The                                                                
State's special concern for Taku River salmon is consistent with                                                                
our position in other treaty negotiations.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. TAYLOR said our major concerns now are with the 75 miles of                                                                 
road that would access the mine site and the many river crossings.                                                              
If they are not designed, constructed, and maintained properly, we                                                              
are going to lose spawning habitat.  We have very limited field                                                                 
studies documenting sockeye spawning adjacent to and immediately                                                                
down stream of the mine site; this applies to juvenile coho,                                                                    
sockeye, and king salmon just downstream of the mine, as well.                                                                  
Most extensive thorough surveys are expected to document additional                                                             
salmon spawning and rearing areas at stream crossings and in areas                                                              
potentially affected by the effluent.  The proposed tailings                                                                    
disposal site is on an active alluvial fan and adequate base line                                                               
data and detailed engineering are not yet available to assure the                                                               
State there will not be water quality problems.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. TAYLOR said he thought it was reasonable that critically                                                                    
important concerns be resolved prior to permitting, but the                                                                     
Canadians have a different process.  We are not asking them to                                                                  
adopt our process, but we do want to be involved in the critical                                                                
decisions that should be made before the overall decision is made.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
The toxicity of mixing zones to fish is still unknown for several                                                               
reasons and this is being worked on with DEC.  The Tulsequah ore                                                                
body is very similar to that of the Britannia Mine which has                                                                    
destroyed the salmon run in Britannia Creek and further impacted                                                                
Howe Sound.  Contingency plans for emergency closure of the mine                                                                
and the level of government inspections and enforcement capability                                                              
is one of the things we think should be finalized as part of the                                                                
mine approval process, not something that should happen afterwards,                                                             
he said.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Our involvement in the Canadian review process has been                                                                         
constructive and we have been making progress.  We still have                                                                   
numerous concerns regarding fish habitat protection. Many of these                                                              
concerns have been protected in the response we got from Canada.                                                                
The response is still fairly vague because there are a lot of                                                                   
unknowns.  Our Canadian technical counterparts have agreed our                                                                  
resource concerns are legitimate ones.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
In discussions with Canada, MR. TAYLOR said, we have begun to agree                                                             
on reasonably mine development standards, but so far it's informal                                                              
and voluntary and relies on Canada's continued invitation to us to                                                              
participate.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
In summary, Alaska has enormous economic interest in this watershed                                                             
and we're proud of the fact that our salmon stocks are healthy                                                                  
including those in the Taku River and we want to keep them that                                                                 
way.  Quite frankly, we look south across the border and are less                                                               
than impressed with British Columbia's commitment to healthy and                                                                
productive salmon fisheries.  The bottom line is when we look at                                                                
the cost and benefits of the Tulsequah Chief mine, it appears that                                                              
the costs are all on our side of the border and the benefits are on                                                             
the Canadian side, but we have never said no to the mine and we are                                                             
looking to get answers to serious questions.  We are asking to have                                                             
a specified meeting for a role in the permit process.  Because the                                                              
mine is in a different country, we have had to use different tools                                                              
to protect our vitally important salmon resources.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if there was any point at which the                                                                      
Department expects to have access to an evaluation on-site of raw                                                               
data and information and actually look at potential stream                                                                      
crossings.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. TAYLOR answered that he wasn't sure when that point would be,                                                               
but when they get to the point of design, he hoped we would be                                                                  
involved since we have quite a bit of expertise in the Division on                                                              
design and construction to mitigate or prevent damage to spawning                                                               
habitats.  He understands there are nine major stream crossing and                                                              
probably as many as 200 culverts that will be necessary in this                                                                 
system.  If they are not designed properly, they will cut off a lot                                                             
of spawning habitat.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD commented that it will take a lot of finesse not                                                               
to look like a direct attack on the sovereignty of the country.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. TAYLOR agreed and said they don't have any direct funding to do                                                             
these kinds of things.  We are working in cooperation with                                                                      
California, Washington, and Oregon on culvert designs that will                                                                 
benefit the spawning salmon.  This is the cutting edge of                                                                       
construction design that will benefit everybody.  If the Canadians                                                              
are not interested now, they will be soon.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE asked if there are specific questions the Canadian                                                               
government haven't addressed.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. TAYLOR answered one of the problems we are having is in the                                                                 
mixing zone design.  We are dealing with a river that changes                                                                   
channels quite a bit.  The mixing zone requires a certain amount of                                                             
water to accomplish the detoxifying of the effluent.  We don't                                                                  
know, at this point, what will happen if the river changes channels                                                             
and they have their mixing somewhere else.  These types of                                                                      
questions need to still be addressed.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE asked if we are requiring cleaner effluent than the                                                              
intake water like we do in our own state.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. CONWAY answered that we are not requiring anything, but we are                                                              
asking for the data they have on it.  If it got to a situation                                                                  
where we had some concerns about that level of effluent, we would                                                               
have a technical discussion about it to see if we could solve that                                                              
dispute.  We haven't gotten to that point, yet.  We would not                                                                   
require them to have a higher standard than we have in Alaska.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
We have agreement on them doing mixing zone calculations and                                                                    
getting that information. We haven't seen the data.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked who's in charge of mixing zones.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. CONWAY answered that Division of Water Quality.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if he would be in charge of the migration of                                                             
the mixing zone with the migration of the mixing stream.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. CONWAY said that is correct; they would do modeling of it and                                                               
set up a sampling plan that would show how it's moving according to                                                             
that model. The Alaskans and Canadians have agreed to this, but in                                                              
authorizing a mixing zone, there are a number of things people need                                                             
to show.  He also regularly consults with ADF&G to make sure they                                                               
are comfortable that the habitat and biota are protected.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 570                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE moved to adopt a conceptual amendment adding the                                                                 
name of the member of the BC Assembly from the Taku area to the                                                                 
list of people this resolution will be sent to.  There were no                                                                  
objections and it was adopted.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PARNELL moved to pass CSSCR 7(RES) with individual                                                                      
recommendations.  There were no objections and it was so ordered.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-20, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 590                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
            HJR 13-UNIVERSITY ENDOWMENT FOR RESEARCH                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD announced HJR 13 to be up for consideration.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILDA RODMAN, Staff to Representative Therriault, said HJR 13                                                               
supports the recent action of the Exxon Valdez Oil Spill                                                                        
Trustees(EVOS) to create a long term research and monitoring                                                                    
endowment using $115 million of the expected reserve.  The                                                                      
resolution also encourages the Trustee Council to endow  chairs in                                                              
the Sciences at the University of Alaska and supports trustee                                                                   
efforts to work with the congressional delegation to obtain                                                                     
authority to increase the earnings on remaining settlement funds.                                                               
Over the years, EVOS' funds have been used largely used to purchase                                                             
lands for habitat preservation, but has been lacking in the area of                                                             
research.  This has left a critical gap in our understanding of                                                                 
this spill and how to respond in the future.    An endowment would                                                              
fulfill the intent of the Exxon Valdez oil settlement, a mission of                                                             
the Trustee Council.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOLLY MCCAMMON, Executive Director, EVOS, supported HJR 13 as                                                               
it ties in very well with the long term plans of the Trustee                                                                    
Council to use the majority of the remaining funds for a long term                                                              
research foundation.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 562                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what the status was on negotiations on the                                                               
Karluk and Sturgeon Rivers.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. MCCAMMON answered that negotiations are ongoing and we don't                                                                
have a deal with Koniag Corporation, yet.  She hoped to reach a                                                                 
conclusion by some time this summer.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what value range she was talking about.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. MCCAMMON said that it would not take a substantial portion of                                                               
these funds to get a deal with Koniag.  They have a disagreement on                                                             
the value of long term protection of the Karluk and Sturgeon                                                                    
Rivers.  The last offer of $24 million was rejected by Koniag.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if that were not successful and there was                                                                
$170 million remaining, would there still be only $115 million                                                                  
transferred to the foundation.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. MCCAMMON answered that the Council committed that by 2002 an                                                                
additional $55 million would be committed to habitat protection.                                                                
That would include Koniag and any additional small parcels.  The                                                                
remainder of the funds would go into a long term fund for research                                                              
and monitoring.  They anticipate that amount being $115 million.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. WENDY REDMAN, Vice President, University of Alaska Statewide                                                                
System, supported HJR 13.  The Board of Regents along with the                                                                  
Public Advisory Committee have long been advocates of setting aside                                                             
a research endowment from the very beginning.  She encouraged the                                                               
Trustees to use a portion of the research reserves to set up some                                                               
additional endowments for some chairs at the University.  A lot of                                                              
work needs to be done with the results that have been generated                                                                 
through the money that has been expended so far - a lot of                                                                      
information on spill technology, restoration methods, ecosystem                                                                 
prevention.  This provides them with an opportunity to endow a                                                                  
chair in perpetuity which takes about $2 million.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN asked what was the impact on the University when a                                                                
chair is endowed.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. REDMAN explained that endowments are held by the University of                                                              
Alaska which is a separate private corporation.  They do all the                                                                
investment and provide the University with the earnings of the fund                                                             
for use.  It shows up in the University budget as University                                                                    
receipts.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KELLY moved to pass SJR 13 from committee with accompanying                                                             
fiscal notes with individual recommendations.  There were no                                                                    
objections and it was so ordered.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
                 HJR 11-ENDORSING ANWR LEASING                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD announced HJR 11 to be up for consideration.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. JUDY JORDAN, Aide for Representative Gail Phillips, noted that                                                              
her sponsor statement was in their packets.  Similar legislation                                                                
has passed in previous legislatures and Representative Phillips                                                                 
wanted to reaffirm this legislature's support and give the                                                                      
opportunity to new legislators to express their support for it.                                                                 
She was concerned, also, that new members of congress understand                                                                
that Alaska is strongly behind opening of ANWR.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. JULIE RAYMOND YAKOUBIAN, Fairbanks resident, opposed HJR 11.                                                                
The coastal plain is important to protect.  It has a few hundred                                                                
species of birds and has musk oxen, polar bears, and the Porcupine                                                              
caribou herd.  The coastal plain is important culturally for the                                                                
people who depend on the Porcupine caribou herd.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRENDEN RAYMOND YAKOUBIAN opposed HJR 11.  He wanted them to                                                                
keep three words in mind when thinking about oil development in the                                                             
Alaska Arctic.  The first is economy.  It makes little sense to                                                                 
drill oil because it subjects us to the boom and bust cycle of the                                                              
oil market.  The second "e" is ecology.  Scientists the world over                                                              
have proved time again how crucial the Arctic's physical                                                                        
environment is to the rest of the planet.  The third "e" is                                                                     
ethnocentrism.  Largely euro-American legislative bodies have                                                                   
ignored the situation of its cognitive first peoples.  This is                                                                  
illogical and immoral.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked him if he had ever visited the ANWR.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. YAKOUBIAN said he and Julie hadn't been beyond the Brooks                                                                   
Range.  They have been to Cold Foot and have read extensive                                                                     
literature by people who have been in the operating areas for                                                                   
various reasons.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said his statements are unfortunate and unfair                                                                 
especially since he had never been to the areas.  The description                                                               
of garbage all over the place is not true.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. YAKOUBIAN responded that Kuparuk was a lot different than                                                                   
Prudhoe Bay.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLY DUNNE, Homer resident, opposed HJR 11.  He disagreed that                                                             
development of the ANWR oil fields would help offset our declining                                                              
oil revenues.  ANWR is federal property and we would not get much                                                               
in the way of royalties from it.  ANWR is no more owned by Alaskans                                                             
than the Statue of Liberty is owned by the state of New York.  It                                                               
is a national treasure.  At one point Senator Murkowski commented                                                               
that ANWR should be called the Arctic Refuge, because it is a                                                                   
wildlife refuge.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN proposed amending HJR 11 to add a phrase that may                                                               
have been accidentally left out: "WHEREAS the state will ensure the                                                             
continued health and productivity of the Porcupine caribou herd and                                                             
the protection of land, water, and wildlife resources during the                                                                
exploration of development of the coastal plain of the Arctic                                                                   
National Wildlife Refuge and..."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 310                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD announced it would go on page 2, line 31.  There                                                               
were no objections and the amendment carried.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS directed their attention to a technical                                                                 
amendment on page 2, line 4 noting the word "imported" should be                                                                
"imports".                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE said that she had a letter from the Mayor of the                                                                 
North Slope Borough that was written to President Clinton regarding                                                             
Secretary of Interior Babbitt's support of the proposed wilderness                                                              
designation for ANWR that she wanted entered into the record.  The                                                              
point is that the people who live in the coastal plain and across                                                               
the North Slope for thousands of years would prove that the Arctic                                                              
is not an untouched wilderness never visited by man.  People have                                                               
called it home as long as the caribou have calved.  They believe                                                                
they best know how to work with the federal and state agencies on                                                               
how to protect the coastal plain.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
An erroneous inference made, SENATOR PEARCE said, by a gentleman                                                                
from Fairbanks that Alyeska was somehow hiding something by all the                                                             
security they have at Pump Station 1 and along the pipeline.  She                                                               
explained that security is required by the U.S. Department of                                                                   
Transportation who has the oversight authority through the right-                                                               
of-way permit for the pipeline and Alyeska would just as soon not                                                               
pay for all their security which is primarily to insure there are                                                               
no terrorist attacks.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked because we have legislation pending making                                                               
this area wilderness, would it be wise to not only state we would                                                               
like to see the coastal plain of ANWR open for exploration, but                                                                 
also that we oppose the designation of the coastal plain portion of                                                             
ANWR as wilderness.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS responded that would be a perfectly logical                                                             
amendment to put in.  She would be glad to work up another                                                                      
resolution.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said they could add another "Further Resolved".                                                                
He announced an at ease from 3:35 to 3:40 p.m.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD announced there was a proposed amendment on page                                                               
3, line 7 after the request for opening to insert "and that the                                                                 
Alaska State Legislature is adamantly opposed to further wilderness                                                             
or other restrictive federal designations in the area of the                                                                    
coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PARNELL moved the amendment.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN objected because the Arctic village of Venetie in                                                               
her district depends heavily on the Porcupine caribou herd and she                                                              
thought they would be in opposition to the designation of                                                                       
wilderness.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if she meant they support the designation of                                                             
wilderness.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN said yes.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he respected that position and said she could                                                             
check that with them before it comes to the floor for a vote.  He                                                               
asked for those in favor of the amendment to raise their hands.                                                                 
SENATORS PARNELL, GREEN, PETE KELLY, and HALFORD voted yes; SENATOR                                                             
LINCOLN voted no and the amendment carried.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN said she wasn't speaking on behalf of the Tanana                                                                
Chief's Conference, but she did have a conversation in which they                                                               
expressed their opposition to the resolution, but hadn't yet                                                                    
testified or written a letter to that effect.  She added that she                                                               
truly believed that Arctic Village and Venetie utilize the                                                                      
Porcupine caribou herd in every aspect of their lives.  There is no                                                             
question in her mind that the folks would die without that herd.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD responded that he believed development on the                                                                  
coastal plain would not in any way harm that herd, but he                                                                       
understands their concern.  History of oil development has proven                                                               
that herds have not been significantly damaged, particularly when                                                               
the proposed development is a smaller footprint than Washington                                                                 
National Airport.  There is also a substantial opinion that                                                                     
development can occur with no negative impact on that herd and on                                                               
calving in that area.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PARNELL moved to pass SCSHJR 11(RES) from committee with                                                                
individual recommendations.  There were no objections and it was so                                                             
ordered.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD adjourned the meeting at 4:55 p.m.                                                                             

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